The Graduates

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.as ... ind=unread

Hey everyone. As we announced at the Fanfest keynote, we are rebalancing Freighters and Jump Freighters in the Kronos release. The biggest change in this rebalance is the addition of customizability to a class that has previously been entirely static.
We originally approached this through rig slots, but a few valid concerns were raised in this thread and we've made some significant adjustments to the plan to address them. The CSM has been a very significant help in this process.

The most significant issues raised in the thread are:

• The permanence of customizability that relies completely on rigs. As the only classes to have rig slots alone with no fitting slots, Freighters and Jump Freighters would have allowed customization towards a player's most common use cases, but would still lack the very important ability to adjust fittings in response to changing needs and environments.
• The relative lack of interesting choices for Jump Freighter pilots. Due to the very unique situation of Jump Freighters, they did not receive very significant benefits from any rigs other than cargohold optimization. This is partially an issue with the lack of gameplay around JF use and their near complete safety when used optimally, but it also reflected a lack of good options.

To deal with the first issue, we are making the significant change of providing the goal of customizability through low slots rather than rig slots. Keeping this path balanced requires a few extra tricks but we believe that it will provide a more interesting set of gameplay choices for freighter pilots to make on an everyday basis.
All Freighters and Jump Freighters will receive 3 low slots, and not receive any rig slots. They will have very restrictive powergrid and cpu totals, and a special role bonus that allows the use of Reinforced Bulkhead modules.

In Kronos we are also adding a new set of low-slot warp speed enhancing modules that can be obtained through low-sec exploration. These modules will increase warp speed by a flat addition of 0.2, 0.25 or 0.3 au/s each. We expect that these will be popular modules for use on Freighters.

To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.

So we expect that most Freighter and Jump Freighter pilots will use their three low slots to mix and match the following modules to meet their needs:

• Expanded Cargoholds
• Reinforced Bulkheads
• Hyperspatial Accelerators (warp speed modules)
• Inertia Stabilizers
• Overdrive Injector Systems
• (For certain armor tanking fits) Adaptive Nano Platings
• (For Jump Freighters) Capacitor Power Relays
• (For Jump Freighters after the Crius release) Jump Fuel Conservation Modules

The base cargo capacity of Freighters is being decreased so that a set of three Tech Two Expanded Cargoholds adds 21-25% cargo above the previous maximum values. For Jump Freighters, three T2 Expanders will increase cargo capacity by 1-2%.
This means that Freighters can get significantly higher maximum capacity than before using modules, and we're increasing the volume of packaged capital ships (to 1.3 million m3) and unpackaged station containers (to 2 million m3) to compensate.

The base EHP of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is being increased (since Expanded Cargoholds affect freighter hp more than cargo rigs do) and more emphasis is being placed on armor and shield than before (although all Freighters still gain the majority of their hitpoints from hull).
Note the change in the Jump Freighter HP bonus, which now only applies to their main tank and hull. The large increase in JF base HP and resist more than make up for the bonus change and all JFs have more base EHP than before.

PROVIDENCE

Amarr Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 10000(+5000) / 46000(+22000) / 100000(-12500)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 70 / 0.0625 / 900,000,000 / 77.98s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 435000(-300000)m3


CHARON

Caldari Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 50000(+44000) / 15000(-5000) / 77500(-28750)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 60 / 0.0625 / 960,000,000 / 83.18s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 465000(-320000)m3


OBELISK

Gallente Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 14000(+10687) / 40000(+17500) / 110000(-10000)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 65 / 0.0625 / 940,000,000 / 81.44s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 440000(-310000)m3


FENRIR

Minmatar Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Maximum Velocity

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 1 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 48000(+42375) / 22000(+750) / 65000(-35000)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 80 / 0.0625 / 820,000,000 / 71.05s / 1.37
Cargo Capacity: 435000(-285000)m3


ARK

Amarr Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility

Jump Freighters Bonus per level:
+10% to armor and hull hitpoints
-10% jump fuel requirements

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 5(+4) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12000(+6000) / 63600(+26400) / 96000(-15000)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 47.5(+7.5) / 62.5(+12.5)
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 34.375(+9.375) / 40(+20)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 84 / 0.055(+0.005) / 900,000,000 / 68.62(+6.24)s / 1.5
Signature Radius: 2800(-12)
Cargo Capacity: 135000(-140625)m3


RHEA

Caldari Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility

Jump Freighters Bonus per level:
+10% to shield and hull hitpoints
-10% jump fuel requirements

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 5(+4) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 60000(+52800) / 18000(-6000) / 93000(-34500)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 40(+20) / 47.5(+7.5) / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 58.75(+13.75) / 34.375(+9.375) / 10
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 72 / 0.055(+0.005) / 960,000,000 / 73.20(+6.66)s / 1.5
Signature Radius: 2930(-2)
Cargo Capacity: 144000(-150375)m3


ANSHAR

Gallente Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility

Jump Freighters Bonus per level:
+10% to armor and hull hitpoints
-10% jump fuel requirements

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 5(+4) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 16800(+10424.4) / 48000(+21000) / 132000(-12000)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 30(+10) / 55(+15) / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 43.125(+8.125) / 51.25(+16.25) / 10
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 78 / 0.055(+0.005) / 940,000,000 / 71.67(+6.51)s / 1.5
Signature Radius: 2880(-4)
Cargo Capacity: 137500(-143750) m3


NOMAD

Minmatar Freighter Bonus per level:
+5% Cargo Capacity
+5% Agility

Jump Freighters Bonus per level:
+10% to shield and hull hitpoints
-10% jump fuel requirements

Role Bonus:
100% reduction in CPU requirements for Reinforced Bulkheads

Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 3(+3)L;
Fittings: 3(+2) PWG, 5(+4) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 57600(+50850) / 26400(+900) / 78000(-42000)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 25(+25) / 30(+10) / 40 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 70(+10) / 43.125(+8.125) / 25 / 10
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 96 / 0.055(+0.005) / 820,000,000 / 62.52(+5.68)s / 1.5
Signature Radius: 2700(-8)
Cargo Capacity: 132000(-138000)m3

These have to be some of the stupidest changes I've ever seen them do to ships.

They should have left cargo capacity alone. Heck, they could have added full slot layouts and rigs to freighters and JF's to make them actually usable.

All they had to do, is restrict the cargo back so that you can not put packaged capital ships in to them and the station containers.

I think we can all agree, that this will make already boring activities worse.

However, people have been crying about JF's since their introduction.

This nerf is intentional: "But yes, the fact that this is a small reduction in Jump Freighter power is completely intended." - Fozzie/Raivi

I don't see what they are trying to accomplish though. Goods (especially T2) will still get imported. They seem like too much of a hassle to build, compared to building them here - the JF nerf doesn't solve that.

E:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]....And I'm caught up.

Ok thanks to the goodposters in this thread so far. I'll definitely be taking the feedback here into account.

As usual, a friendly reminder that death threats are generally a suboptimal way of convincing someone of the correctness of your perspective.

I'm seeing some good feedback about the unique role of Jump Freighters meaning that they don't get much benefit from rigs other than cargo rigs, and this is indeed a problem that limits player choice. I'm going to bring up a few ways to help solve that issue with the other designers early next week.

I do want to clarify that although it's very possible that a lot of these numbers can change, we're not going to simply give JFs a gigantic buff to their cargoholds and call it a day. The fast movement of goods across the galaxy has its advantages and also its disadvantages, and we are not going to simply let power creep get out of control in this area.

I'll be continuing to read this thread, chatting with the CSM and the other designers here and I'm confident we'll get to the best possible version of these changes.

Thanks![/quote]

What the hell is this crap, the best fix it because this is just so Damn stupid. Eve should have a balance between risk vs reward except those in null sec that can just go get lost.

Why should I risk a 7 billion isk ship to move some stuff around which now costs twice as much to move and I can't move as much? Although I suspect jump freighters will drop in price now, wondering if I should be considering selling mine now and buying them back post patch, or potentially not buy them back at all.

Such horrible changes.

You can check out this spreadsheet to see the rigged numbers etc.

(Jump Freighters are on the second tab ^^)

To be honest, I don't quiet know about the risk bit. I agree that they are semi-expensive, but if you JF correctly, i.e. cyno correct to stations and so on, it is virtually risk free.

Here is a spreadsheet, which covers JF's cargo capacity aswell. I didn't find that in Moris: http://i.imgur.com/hJsCR8H.jpg

Notice the Rhea being hit the hardest cargo wise, while not getting a fuel rebalance to make up for it.

Someone with a cloaked strabber on station can kill a jump freighter with the pilot unable to do anything, so no I dont think it's risk free.

Apologies, I tend to forget that.

Why that is not listed as an exploit, when bumping supers which are logging in is, is beyond me v0v

The guys using this trick do tend to stick to about a handful of low sec systems though, which makes avoiding them easier for the the general null sec population. Your point stands though.

deathpain wrote:Someone with a cloaked strabber on station can kill a jump freighter with the pilot unable to do anything, so no I dont think it's risk free.

How does this work again? Curious to know

Challu Ni wrote:

deathpain wrote:Someone with a cloaked strabber on station can kill a jump freighter with the pilot unable to do anything, so no I dont think it's risk free.

How does this work again? Curious to know

http://forums.tgrad.space/viewtopic.php?f ... rs#p136169

S1euth wrote:Freight Club and Marmite are as active as they have ever been and killed a few dozen Jump Freighters in lowsec systems with cloaked, neutral bumping stabbers in the last month. They leverage those few seconds where your ship appears in system, before you're loaded to ram your ship out of docking range.

I haven't found a good way to avoid this, other than checking your jump systems for recent kills and being afraid of any stabbers (also fleet stabbers) you may get a glimpse of.

For Example
http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2648

Does anyone find logistics fun? That is the biggest concern I have with CCPs overall issues with JFers.

Personally, I wish JFers had a 50000% capacity buff, so people could spend 500x less time internet spaceship truck driving and use that time to do things that are actually fun and engaging with other people.

Plus, imagine the killmails. Players would have to make real risk/reward decisions rather than just filling their ship to the brim and making 10 trips a night.

I think logistics are about on par with doing POS's. Only a few people have the stomach to keep up the steam on a corp level.

The thing is that JF's are one of the most safe and effective ways of bringing goods to 0.0. Even the Goonswarm logistics guy (Querns of GBS Logistics and Fives Support) appears to think so.

Furthermore, CCP seem to believe that by nerfing JF's (amongst other things) they will create a better basis for 0.0 industry. Honestly I think they are bunkers, 0.0 will never start to produce everything they need out here.

I updated Q's post with the NEW changes.

Low slots instead of rigs...

Slightly more Cargo for freighters possibly, less for JF's. (But there is a fuel reduction mod coming in the July expansion)

And here is a chart of tank vs cargo, which covers the consequences of the changes:

http://eve.beyondreality.se/pics/Kronos ... goTank.png

From Tippia on the EveO forums.

Much better change - more potential Cargo Capacity is always better and if by some small chance you have a half full load of expensive stuff, then some bulkhead options are great.