The Graduates

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev ... t-release/

Hi Internet Space People,

We announced on The o7 Show we are planning to make some changes to the way fleets work. Since then we’ve had lots of amazing player feedback, and based on that feedback we’re making some tweaks. Unfortunately this means we’ve had to push back the release of these changes to the August 25 release.



What are the planned changes?

As announced: Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders and Squad Commanders will only be able to fleet-warp to public objects and other fleet members. This means you cannot fleet-warp to the following:


Probe Results

Bookmarks

Mission locations


After feedback and discussion, we’ve done some magic on our code and now a wider range of objects will be broadcastable as a Warp-To:


Mission locations

Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable)

Fleet members

Along with all existing broadcastable items


 



What are the goals of these changes?

 

Encourage individual fleet member participation

We believe that every player’s actions have an impact on New Eden. Sometimes that impact is small, little more than a ripple. Other times it is a tsunami, shattering empires and destroying dynasties.

Fleet combat is an exciting and engaging part of EVE Online. Individual player actions are the foundation of fleets. Getting the primary target stasis webified to allow your buddies to hit for full damage. Pulling off that critical jam on enemy logistics. All actions of individual players have the potential to make or break fleets.

Fleet-warping discourages individual player participation. It’s more effective to have the Fleet Commander warp the fleet around rather than each pilot warping themselves. This mostly mindless type of movement reduces the impact of each fleet member’s actions on the outcome of the combat. Drone assign was another example of this type of proxy gameplay that we have reduced.

Following the changes, fleet warps will still be possible but will require greater participation by fleet members, such as getting a scout into position. Often fleet warps might not be the most effective solution for movement.

 

Increase the time it takes for fleets to close ranges

It is time to return some viability to long-range fleets. The proposed changes make it a little harder to close the range to such a fleet, by reducing the efficiency of fleet warping to a very quick on-grid combat probe result.

The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are “Slippery Petes”. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down. The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines.

We expect these changes to give long-range fleets time to deploy countermeasures, such as stop-bubbles. It gives an opportunity for players who enjoy flying cloaky ships and probing to distinguish themselves as valuable assets in a fleet. We anticipate an increase in cool new doctrines being flown.

 

Reduce the ease of performing a bomb run without reducing their potential damage

The ease of performing bomb runs has stifled the use of battleships and battlecruisers in 0.0 space. Fleet-warps simplify and reduce the response time of bombing runs. With a few probe-equipped squad commanders, it’s easy to land many simultaneous bombing runs on an enemy fleet only a few seconds after they come out of warp.

The changes to fleet-warps will make bombing runs harder to pull off. However, a group of dedicated and well-coordinated players can still decimate entire fleets. We expect bombing runs to take a little longer to setup and execute, giving their targets time for counter-gameplay.

EVE Online is about interaction, and fleets are one of the primary methods of doing so. Being in a fleet should be an engaging experience. If you have suggestions for the future or feedback for the planned changes, please post in the comments thread for this blog.

 

- CCP Larrikin

Ok I have spent a long time out of game so I'm rather confused so maybe someone can explain some things to me.

[quote=CCP Larrikin]
Often fleet warps might not be the most effective solution for movement.
[/quote]

Surely the reason this feature is used all the time by all fleets is that it is the most effective solution for moving a large amount of ships at one time, not that it's not and we just don't realise it.

[quote=CCP Larrikin]
The most common long range (defined as +150km) fleets seen in recent times are “Slippery Petes”. These are specialized Tengus that are fit with lots of ECCM, making them difficult to probe down. The combination of on-grid combat probing and fleet-warps have choked out most other long-range doctrines.
[/quote]

Agreed this is entirely true. But wait... Doesn't this mean that the slippery Pete is now not only hard to probe but even if you do get a probed result you won't be able to warp your fleet on to it anyway. So now doesn't this create a doctrine that can't be probed easily and even if you do you can't warp your fleet on to them anyway. Surely if you just fit long range ships to kite even if you do get something near them the velocity that they maintain will be so great that they will be out of range for short range doctrines to get in there in time. So instead of making long range doctrines effective, isn't this just making short range doctrines ineffective?

[quote=CCP Larrikin]
It gives an opportunity for players who enjoy flying cloaky ships and probing to distinguish themselves as valuable assets in a fleet.
[/quote]

Again same as above, surely it won't matter if you have a great proper in Fleet unless you can get all your tackle into a fast moving fleet there not going to get pined down fast enough to kill them.

[quote=CCP Larrikin]
We expect bombing runs to take a little longer to setup and execute, giving their targets time for counter-gameplay.
[/quote]

As an old bomber fc I can understand the logic behind nerfing bombers, I really can.

However... This does not nerf bombers at all, it just nerfs the ability to bomb directly onto a specific target. I can't count the amount of times I didn't even bother with probes to get a bomb run onto target, but instead waited for my friendly fleet to place a nice wreck right in the middle of the blob for me and then I hit that. I definitely went that route in high lag situations anyway.

And this doesn't even touch pipe bombing. Your still going to have your fleets fleet warp between gates as otherwise your going to get a couple guys get tackled on your outbound and they die, or you have to go back to save them. So pipe bombing with bombers which is often used will not be effected.

Also zero momentum bombing and also cyno bombing using a pre determined warp in using a bubbler also won't be effected.

So since although I agree it makes bombing tougher, it doesn't nerf bombers since I that's what CCP wants then they failed, and it also doesn't give more responsibility to the line member, it just adds more work to the fc.

So I don't see anything here that makes any sense s hopefully some of you that arnt inactive could explain this to me as it makes no sense at all.

It makes no sense at all. I have tried every argument I could with Larrikin. I even exchanged a few Eve-mails with him. He's got that "this is my idea and I am going to stick with it no matter what" attitude, which is seen so frequently in narrow-minded, inexperienced, middle-management types. I cannot believe they gave him the keys to the spaceship.

By allowing broadcasts to bookmarks, he's allowed some more flexbility despite delayed propagation, but the silliness with the FC's alt working as the second prober still remains. But WHers are still screwed, the average grunt has to wait around for the alt to land, and as DP notes, slippery petes and other fast kiting doctrines are even that much more uncatchable, and forget OGB boosters. Oh CCP..