I feel safe in Citadel city
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:00 pm
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev ... adel-city/
Hello again people and welcome back to yet another structure blog by Team Game of Drones. We’ve previously talked about the general protection and capture mechanics, now let’s discuss what happens to your stuff when things blow up, otherwise known as asset safety mechanics.
As usual, numbers will be provided but are still up to debate, so no need to soil your undies prematurely. There is going to be time for discussion, feedback and changes.
Missed a structure blog? Have a look at the following:
Back into the structure – blog introducing the structure changes and long term plan.
Shake my Citadel – blog listing the first structure class to be worked on, as well as general mechanics.
Citadels, sieges and you – blog explaining capture and defense mechanics for our new structures.
CSM Citadel FAQ - A detailed FAQ covering all important aspects of the new structures. Compiled by the CSM in conjunction with CCP. Available in English only.
Goals
Before we get started, let’s explain why we even need to consider this particular feature in the first place.
One of the core philosophies of EVE Online is that acquired resources can be lost. This in turn keeps the economy in check, gives a risk versus reward in the game, and promotes conflict and bragging (who doesn’t love those juicy killmails?). However, while this principle is in place for most of the structures in-game (starbases, customs offices, deployables), it does not apply to player built outposts.
This leads to several problems:
This gives high staging value to building outposts since they can never be removed.
As time passes space becomes more and more saturated with outposts, decreasing logistics risks in null-security space, and reducing the need to build more outposts in the first place.
So, we quickly decided that our new structures would need to be destructible, especially since they are going to be available everywhere from high-security to wormhole space. However, this introduces another problem: we want our structures to be used, but one of the deterrents against that goal is the fact they compete against existing NPC stations and player outposts (before we nuke them that is). As such, we have to accept the fact no one will want to store items or minions (if you are an alliance leader) in one of the new structures if they can be destroyed and lost on a whim.
And that is how asset safety was born.
Relocate my stuff
So, what happens when players successfully attacks one of the new structures and blows it up?
All items fitted on the structures are lost, and can drop as loot (just like ships). To all the clever people out there, remember it is not going to be possible for owners to remove fitted structure modules when the reinforced 1 timer starts.
All rigs fitted on the structure will be lost. While the price for M rigs will not that expensive, X-L rigs will have the same price magnitude than outpost improvement and upgrades, so they are not something to be easily dismissed.
Some of the input materials used in manufacturing or science jobs will drop as loot. This does not include blueprints, which will always be safe from greedy attacking raids, except if they would otherwise be consumed as part of the job (invention for instance). We will add more incoming sources as we are migrating starbase functions. For instance, reaction materials could drop in the future. Market orders will not be available as loot and are going to remain safe from raiding, since they are based on player hangars.
The structure will turn into a wreck that will contain a certain percentage of the minerals and components that were needed to build its base hull (not the modules nor rigs).
Items located in personal or corporation hangars will be impounded and saved from destruction.
There are two different ways of recovering impounded items:
Have items delivered to the closest NPC station. For high-security dwellers, this will be the closest high-security station available. For low and null-security structures, that will be the closest low-security NPC station. Please note the exact destination will be picked automatically to minimize potential for abuse.
Build another Citadel in the same system to replace the one that has been lost, and deliver the items there. This option will be working the same way for all locations, and will be the only way to recover items out of wormhole space. In case there is more than one structure available to deliver the items to, a selection list will be provided.
There are going to be sinks involved to be able to recover impounded items:
In cases where items are delivered to a NPC station, players will need to pay an ISK fee based on a percentage of moved item market value (numbers we are considering are around 10% price fee).
A minimum recovery time, based on the distance between origin and destination, calculated in light years. There will be a minimum time enforced, even if items are recovered within the same system: current number is 5 days minimum, up to 20 days for the longest distances. A choice doesn’t have to be picked after the recovery time has elapsed, players may wait more before picking a recovery option. If the chosen destination structure is blown up before the recovery time has elapsed, it will not reset – a new structure can be picked after the remaining time is gone.
Please note that the recovery time will automatically start counting down as soon as the lost structure has been blown up. As such, users will not have to wait after coming back from a break or if they forget to press a confirmation box.
More details
Of course, there is going to be more conditions based on circumstances.
All items:
Are automatically delivered as a single package which has to be opened, like courier contract plastic wraps. This is done not to overwhelm, confuse or mix items that are being delivered with ones already in place in the hangar.
Owners can pick one item at a time to extract from the package if they so wish. In that case, pricing will be calculated on selected items. This done to allow users to get separate items out if they cannot pay the fee for the whole batch if items are delivered to a NPC station.
Items with exclusive sizes will have restriction on delivery, which mainly includes capital and supercapitals. For example, a titan that was lost inside a Citadel XL structure cannot be delivered to a NPC station or any other Citadel size than XL. Furthermore, a capital or supercapital ship cannot be delivered to high-sec.
When the structure is destroyed all items stay inside containers, but lose password or lock protection.
Corporation hangar items need proper roles to be delivered. Due to the nature of the recovery it is critical access is properly filtered to avoid thefts.
That leaves us with player docked inside the structure when it was lost:
The player is podded with all normal rules applying for such a case (implants are lost) and moved to his or her medical station. If the medical clone was set to the structure that just blew up, it will be moved to a medical NPC station.
Player ships are safely impounded and saved, along with all their fittings and rigs. We considered destroyed the active ship as well, but that would only lead to further hassle where players would always have to remember to exit their active ship when docking at one of those new structures.
As an optional feature, we are investigating having frozen player corpses docked inside the lost structure to appear near the wreck, or be able to be salvaged through the wreck.
Another option is to have all livestock goods be wrecked and appear as frozen meat when delivered through this feature (example: exotic dancers, fedos, liverstock etc..). Yes, bad things happens to perishable products when delivered in such a fashion.
Please note asset recovery can be done remotely. There is no need to be in the same solar system, or even docking access to initiate the process to recover your assets. In the same vein, the station owner(s) will never be able to tweak or remove items from other character personal hangars. They will only be able to tamper with corporation hangars and their own character hangars. This works the same way for jobs, or even market orders that are started by an individual. This rule exists to prevent asset appropriation in structures that will be open for public use.
Visibility
Just like for capture and protection mechanics, we also want this feature to have proper visualization in the game.
As such:
A notification will be sent for each destroyed structure the player (or corporation) had items in.
A notification will be sent if the player was podded for being in a structure that has been destroyed.
A proper tab will be added to personal / corporation asset window when items are impounded and available for delivery.
Impounded items can also be displayed on the Star Map under the “my asset” filter.
Example
Since that’s a lot of information explained in a blog, let’s use an example to make sure everyone grasps the fine details of this feature.
The Tasty Fougasse Republic™ is a corporation that operates a Citadel XL structure in EC-P8R. It has the following properties:
Let’s hypothetically say the structure is worth 15 billion ISK in materials to build, and has rigs worth another 85 billion ISK. It is also fitted with structure modules and defenses.
5 jobs are running, 1 is a titan being manufactured, the rest are related to blueprint research.
It has ships, items, blueprints located in the corporation hangar of the Citadel XL structure worth 200 billion ISK (calculated from average market value), which includes a Nyx being stored there.
It has many players docked, some of them inactive, but with items stored in their own personal hangars. Let’s take a guinea pig, Mrs. Madeleine Truffade, who has 1 billion ISK stored in assets in her personal hangar at that particular Citadel XL structure. She is docked in the structure in a Megathron, and has implants plugged in her brain.
All goes well in the life of the Tasty Fougasse Republic™ until a rival corporation, the Wild Fish’n’Chips Warband™ comes along and destroys the Citadel XL after 3 vulnerability cycles.
The following will happen:
The structure turns into a wreck. A percentage of the 15 billion ISK materials used in its construction are moved back into the wreck. They can be recovered through salvaging.
Structure module and defenses drop as loot for anyone to take it. Some of it may be destroyed as that follows the same exact rules than for ship loot.
Structure rigs are lost forever, which is a 85 billion ISK loss.
A percentage of the materials used to build the titan will drop as loot. Blueprints are not affected. This again follows the same rules as standard loot mechanics.
All items located in the corporation hangar divisions are impounded. Items are kept inside containers but lose password protection and are saved for a person with sufficient roles within the Tasty Fougasse Republic™ to deliver.
All players that were docked in the structure are podded. Mrs. Madeleine Truffade loses her implants and is moved to her medical home station, Duripant VII – Moon 6 – Federal Navy Academy. All items located in personal hangars are saved for their owners to claim. This includes Madeleine’s Megathron. A notification will be sent to Madeleine explaining what happened.
To reclaim the corporation items, someone with sufficient roles can:
Pay 20 billion ISK (10% fee of 200 billion ISK) to have corporate items moved to Anin, the closest 0.4 solar system with NPC stations. The exact station picked will be the closest one to the destroyed structure. Items can be selected on a one by one basis if the person doesn’t want or cannot pay the full 20 billion ISK fee. Furthermore, a 6 days delay is imposed before items are moved to the destination. The Nyx will not be moved however, as it is a supercapital ship and is not eligible to be moved to a NPC station. It can only be recovered with the option below.
Build another Citadel in EC-P8R and reconnect it to the lost assets. No fee will need to be paid in that case, but a minimum time delay of 5 days will still be in place. Note that by doing so, all corporation members will also be able to deliver their own personal items without further hassle. The Nyx can only be delivered if the new Citadel structure is of an XL size, as it would not fit in a M or L class.
Please note the Tasty Fougasse Republic™ cannot tamper with Madeleine Truffade’s personal hangar items or deliver them on her behalf. Those are hers and hers alone.
Conclusion
And that’s it regarding asset safety. We do hope that by now you have a clearer picture on how new structures are going to work. There is still much we need to talk about, like structure price, acquisition, exact defensive capabilities, fittings, fuel, services or bonuses, so expect more blogs incoming as we flesh details out.
Fly safe, and may the odds be in your favor.
Hello again people and welcome back to yet another structure blog by Team Game of Drones. We’ve previously talked about the general protection and capture mechanics, now let’s discuss what happens to your stuff when things blow up, otherwise known as asset safety mechanics.
As usual, numbers will be provided but are still up to debate, so no need to soil your undies prematurely. There is going to be time for discussion, feedback and changes.
Missed a structure blog? Have a look at the following:
Back into the structure – blog introducing the structure changes and long term plan.
Shake my Citadel – blog listing the first structure class to be worked on, as well as general mechanics.
Citadels, sieges and you – blog explaining capture and defense mechanics for our new structures.
CSM Citadel FAQ - A detailed FAQ covering all important aspects of the new structures. Compiled by the CSM in conjunction with CCP. Available in English only.
Goals
Before we get started, let’s explain why we even need to consider this particular feature in the first place.
One of the core philosophies of EVE Online is that acquired resources can be lost. This in turn keeps the economy in check, gives a risk versus reward in the game, and promotes conflict and bragging (who doesn’t love those juicy killmails?). However, while this principle is in place for most of the structures in-game (starbases, customs offices, deployables), it does not apply to player built outposts.
This leads to several problems:
This gives high staging value to building outposts since they can never be removed.
As time passes space becomes more and more saturated with outposts, decreasing logistics risks in null-security space, and reducing the need to build more outposts in the first place.
So, we quickly decided that our new structures would need to be destructible, especially since they are going to be available everywhere from high-security to wormhole space. However, this introduces another problem: we want our structures to be used, but one of the deterrents against that goal is the fact they compete against existing NPC stations and player outposts (before we nuke them that is). As such, we have to accept the fact no one will want to store items or minions (if you are an alliance leader) in one of the new structures if they can be destroyed and lost on a whim.
And that is how asset safety was born.
Relocate my stuff
So, what happens when players successfully attacks one of the new structures and blows it up?
All items fitted on the structures are lost, and can drop as loot (just like ships). To all the clever people out there, remember it is not going to be possible for owners to remove fitted structure modules when the reinforced 1 timer starts.
All rigs fitted on the structure will be lost. While the price for M rigs will not that expensive, X-L rigs will have the same price magnitude than outpost improvement and upgrades, so they are not something to be easily dismissed.
Some of the input materials used in manufacturing or science jobs will drop as loot. This does not include blueprints, which will always be safe from greedy attacking raids, except if they would otherwise be consumed as part of the job (invention for instance). We will add more incoming sources as we are migrating starbase functions. For instance, reaction materials could drop in the future. Market orders will not be available as loot and are going to remain safe from raiding, since they are based on player hangars.
The structure will turn into a wreck that will contain a certain percentage of the minerals and components that were needed to build its base hull (not the modules nor rigs).
Items located in personal or corporation hangars will be impounded and saved from destruction.
There are two different ways of recovering impounded items:
Have items delivered to the closest NPC station. For high-security dwellers, this will be the closest high-security station available. For low and null-security structures, that will be the closest low-security NPC station. Please note the exact destination will be picked automatically to minimize potential for abuse.
Build another Citadel in the same system to replace the one that has been lost, and deliver the items there. This option will be working the same way for all locations, and will be the only way to recover items out of wormhole space. In case there is more than one structure available to deliver the items to, a selection list will be provided.
There are going to be sinks involved to be able to recover impounded items:
In cases where items are delivered to a NPC station, players will need to pay an ISK fee based on a percentage of moved item market value (numbers we are considering are around 10% price fee).
A minimum recovery time, based on the distance between origin and destination, calculated in light years. There will be a minimum time enforced, even if items are recovered within the same system: current number is 5 days minimum, up to 20 days for the longest distances. A choice doesn’t have to be picked after the recovery time has elapsed, players may wait more before picking a recovery option. If the chosen destination structure is blown up before the recovery time has elapsed, it will not reset – a new structure can be picked after the remaining time is gone.
Please note that the recovery time will automatically start counting down as soon as the lost structure has been blown up. As such, users will not have to wait after coming back from a break or if they forget to press a confirmation box.
More details
Of course, there is going to be more conditions based on circumstances.
All items:
Are automatically delivered as a single package which has to be opened, like courier contract plastic wraps. This is done not to overwhelm, confuse or mix items that are being delivered with ones already in place in the hangar.
Owners can pick one item at a time to extract from the package if they so wish. In that case, pricing will be calculated on selected items. This done to allow users to get separate items out if they cannot pay the fee for the whole batch if items are delivered to a NPC station.
Items with exclusive sizes will have restriction on delivery, which mainly includes capital and supercapitals. For example, a titan that was lost inside a Citadel XL structure cannot be delivered to a NPC station or any other Citadel size than XL. Furthermore, a capital or supercapital ship cannot be delivered to high-sec.
When the structure is destroyed all items stay inside containers, but lose password or lock protection.
Corporation hangar items need proper roles to be delivered. Due to the nature of the recovery it is critical access is properly filtered to avoid thefts.
That leaves us with player docked inside the structure when it was lost:
The player is podded with all normal rules applying for such a case (implants are lost) and moved to his or her medical station. If the medical clone was set to the structure that just blew up, it will be moved to a medical NPC station.
Player ships are safely impounded and saved, along with all their fittings and rigs. We considered destroyed the active ship as well, but that would only lead to further hassle where players would always have to remember to exit their active ship when docking at one of those new structures.
As an optional feature, we are investigating having frozen player corpses docked inside the lost structure to appear near the wreck, or be able to be salvaged through the wreck.
Another option is to have all livestock goods be wrecked and appear as frozen meat when delivered through this feature (example: exotic dancers, fedos, liverstock etc..). Yes, bad things happens to perishable products when delivered in such a fashion.
Please note asset recovery can be done remotely. There is no need to be in the same solar system, or even docking access to initiate the process to recover your assets. In the same vein, the station owner(s) will never be able to tweak or remove items from other character personal hangars. They will only be able to tamper with corporation hangars and their own character hangars. This works the same way for jobs, or even market orders that are started by an individual. This rule exists to prevent asset appropriation in structures that will be open for public use.
Visibility
Just like for capture and protection mechanics, we also want this feature to have proper visualization in the game.
As such:
A notification will be sent for each destroyed structure the player (or corporation) had items in.
A notification will be sent if the player was podded for being in a structure that has been destroyed.
A proper tab will be added to personal / corporation asset window when items are impounded and available for delivery.
Impounded items can also be displayed on the Star Map under the “my asset” filter.
Example
Since that’s a lot of information explained in a blog, let’s use an example to make sure everyone grasps the fine details of this feature.
The Tasty Fougasse Republic™ is a corporation that operates a Citadel XL structure in EC-P8R. It has the following properties:
Let’s hypothetically say the structure is worth 15 billion ISK in materials to build, and has rigs worth another 85 billion ISK. It is also fitted with structure modules and defenses.
5 jobs are running, 1 is a titan being manufactured, the rest are related to blueprint research.
It has ships, items, blueprints located in the corporation hangar of the Citadel XL structure worth 200 billion ISK (calculated from average market value), which includes a Nyx being stored there.
It has many players docked, some of them inactive, but with items stored in their own personal hangars. Let’s take a guinea pig, Mrs. Madeleine Truffade, who has 1 billion ISK stored in assets in her personal hangar at that particular Citadel XL structure. She is docked in the structure in a Megathron, and has implants plugged in her brain.
All goes well in the life of the Tasty Fougasse Republic™ until a rival corporation, the Wild Fish’n’Chips Warband™ comes along and destroys the Citadel XL after 3 vulnerability cycles.
The following will happen:
The structure turns into a wreck. A percentage of the 15 billion ISK materials used in its construction are moved back into the wreck. They can be recovered through salvaging.
Structure module and defenses drop as loot for anyone to take it. Some of it may be destroyed as that follows the same exact rules than for ship loot.
Structure rigs are lost forever, which is a 85 billion ISK loss.
A percentage of the materials used to build the titan will drop as loot. Blueprints are not affected. This again follows the same rules as standard loot mechanics.
All items located in the corporation hangar divisions are impounded. Items are kept inside containers but lose password protection and are saved for a person with sufficient roles within the Tasty Fougasse Republic™ to deliver.
All players that were docked in the structure are podded. Mrs. Madeleine Truffade loses her implants and is moved to her medical home station, Duripant VII – Moon 6 – Federal Navy Academy. All items located in personal hangars are saved for their owners to claim. This includes Madeleine’s Megathron. A notification will be sent to Madeleine explaining what happened.
To reclaim the corporation items, someone with sufficient roles can:
Pay 20 billion ISK (10% fee of 200 billion ISK) to have corporate items moved to Anin, the closest 0.4 solar system with NPC stations. The exact station picked will be the closest one to the destroyed structure. Items can be selected on a one by one basis if the person doesn’t want or cannot pay the full 20 billion ISK fee. Furthermore, a 6 days delay is imposed before items are moved to the destination. The Nyx will not be moved however, as it is a supercapital ship and is not eligible to be moved to a NPC station. It can only be recovered with the option below.
Build another Citadel in EC-P8R and reconnect it to the lost assets. No fee will need to be paid in that case, but a minimum time delay of 5 days will still be in place. Note that by doing so, all corporation members will also be able to deliver their own personal items without further hassle. The Nyx can only be delivered if the new Citadel structure is of an XL size, as it would not fit in a M or L class.
Please note the Tasty Fougasse Republic™ cannot tamper with Madeleine Truffade’s personal hangar items or deliver them on her behalf. Those are hers and hers alone.
Conclusion
And that’s it regarding asset safety. We do hope that by now you have a clearer picture on how new structures are going to work. There is still much we need to talk about, like structure price, acquisition, exact defensive capabilities, fittings, fuel, services or bonuses, so expect more blogs incoming as we flesh details out.
Fly safe, and may the odds be in your favor.